roger altman house

You had that, and then the legislative group, meaning Howard Paster and his counterparts from Treasury and Commerce and so forth, would meet every afternoon. That is foolish because history provides lessons on these matters. No, first of all, it wasnt his focus. I know I didnt and I was very involved in trade policy as a whole because much of our trade policy involved Japan and I was very involved in that. Then, as the weeks and months went by, it came closer and closer and closer to whip counts. The hearings ended around the fourth or fifth of August and it was now the seventeenth or something. Yes, and also there was considerable uncertainty as to whether Cuomo was indeed a candidate, which, as we all know, he proved not to be. It turned out to be the equivalent of walking the plank. I think its a combination of several things. But, you know, its history, its participating right there in the actual, critical moment of history, and the sense of participating is very uplifting. But from their vantage point, thats when they experienced intense partisanship. He didnt want to be involved in the daily ins and outs of those jobs. I didnt have a background in healthcare of any kind, and I began to see that it was overloading the circuits to try to do as much as some wanted to. There were some folks from the White House Press Secretarys office who were in it. Is this a case where the political people were encouraging him to hold his ground? Bentsen knew Clinton wouldnt get anything else if he didnt. As a Democratic President however, he could have vetoed the bill and it would have been sustained by Congress. The politics of Oklahoma. So yes, the themes were in the State of the Union. If you think about it in the context of today, well see how the primary campaign plays out, but it will be unusual if differences on issues were the decisive factor. He served as assistant secretary of the U.S. Treasury from 1977 to 1981 before returning to Lehman, where he later became co-head of overall investment banking as well as a member of the management committee and board. How difficult was it to raise money in the environment, Cuomo aside, just for somebody who had been a Governor of Arkansas in a campaign season when theres. I started getting inundated with letters from Congress asking how the RTC intended to handle this, stirred up by this Republican campaign. Clintons that way. And there were obviously a whole host of people who were against it from day one and you werent going to change anybodys mind in the latter category. After all, John Kennedy is seen in the middle by historians. There was a concern that wed spill all the rest of our blood on NAFTA and have nothing left. It was the usual degree of difficulty that early, not really greater because he was from Arkansas. and Lloyd would say, I wouldnt do it, Mr. President, or I would do it. Thats one where the Federal role is much bigger and one of the things we didnt discuss is why the administration did not latch onto that early on, even though the President was on the populist side of reform. By the way, when the three-judge Washington panel that chose Fiske threw him out and replaced him with [Ken] Starr, Starr went back to the beginning and went over the entire thing again and came to the same conclusion. The chief, the captain of that ship with Mickey Kantor, USTR [United States Trade Representative], and to some considerable extent Ron Brown, Secretary of Commerce, and Lloyd Bentsen played a big role in it. Were they talking about what you do with Senator X, with Congressman Y? Yes, hes just that way. So I had that meeting with Clinton. Im just saying the Japanese side very much viewed it as a zero-sum game, therefore anything we got was, from their point of view, giving up something. Id had served before and seen how not to do it. Thats one of the things that kind of surprises. In all aspects? There may have been, but I know I didnt feel it. Then once he started to make the rounds in New York, he generated very considerable positive reaction and became self-fulfilling, and raising money for him became quite a bit easier. Hed be speaking someplace and Id be playing some role at the same conference at one of the usual conference locations, and we would briefly renew the acquaintance, but I did not stay, in any organized way, in touch with him. That notion took hold at that meeting. You were both involved then in student government. No, its time for Russell, I really need this, I really need it, the country really needs it. He knew that if we lost this vote it was a severe blow. He said, Its up to you. And also, the opportunity to finally address what the real economic situation and fiscal situation was. Lloyd Bentsens reputation preceded him and he was a master of the game as far as Washington and the legislative process and handling himself and so forth in a way that few ever have been. The hearings process really kind of kicks it off. You couldnt say to yourself, Well in the end hell be fine. You indicated that the President did it right with Treasury. So we already had quite a taste of the Congressional dynamic and overall political dynamic. The bigger gamble then was, as you say, the long term, the response in the long-term credit markets, whats going to happen, and that, I take it, is where Allen Blinders. But for reasons I dont fully understand, it goes in cycles, and we came into office at a time when an up cycle so to speak on partisanship was asserting itself. I stay in touch with him. You referred earlier to Garys question that most of the decisions that Clinton made about his priorities came post-election, but the process. Now, maybe we caused that. Mickey Kantor was in charge of the famous Little Rock Economic Summit. It was a mixture of people and some of the names I recall of course were George Stephanopoulos and Gene Sperling, Bob Rubin, Bob Reich, Rob Shapiro, myself. I mean, I saw a lot of the two of them and I became quite friendly with Hillary, and by the time I left the administration was actually much more friendly with Hillary than I was with the President, even though ironically Id obviously known him first. He moved it to the center, made it the party of fiscal responsibilitywhoever would have believed that?and enabled the party to shed much of its old baggage. Sometimes without him and sometimes with him, but if Mrs. Clinton was there, everybody else was. Once you get NAFTA behind you, my guess is that there were further discussions at that point about what ought to be next and this is when healthcare becomes a priority. Obviously he balanced the budget, now its unbalanced. And its not the right move to inform a Cabinet officer that his team is Mr. X, Miss Y, and Miss Z. He did quite well. I doubt it. From that time forward, about 79 times out of 80 Clinton did whatever Bentsen said. He just determined each time that what he had to do was get through this chapter and somehow live to fight for the next one and didnt take the longer view. So I think Clintons own behavior did play a role in it and that in retrospect there would have been better ways for Clinton to have dealt with some of these things. No. The notion, by the way, in Bob Woodwards book, The Agenda, that Greenspan was hovering over the proceedings like an angel of death is completely fictitious. What Im interested in is your perception of when the views that crystallized with economic policies were adopted in the first months of the administration. I had known him just slightly. It occurred around 96, 97, but in the early stages of the Clinton years we didnt have a currency crisis. No I dont. One of the themes they advanced was deficit reduction, not the only one. So hes the one who asked you to serve in that position, not Clinton. Its not as easy. I think the days for that have largely passed, I dont think members of Congress care much about that. Most of the budget directors thus far, Alice Rivlin, Leon Panetta, Jack Lewwe spent a day with Larry Summers, a number of the political people as well, speechwriters and so forth. The election occurred and about a week later Reagan was getting a haircut in California and he came out of the barbershop. There were a lot of people who did take that candidacy very seriously though, right? I just remember that being contemporaneous with the real beginning of an organized effort here. There was also a whole series of other investigations undertaken at the same time, one by the Office of Government Ethics, one by the Treasury Inspector General, one by the Office of White House Counsel. He really enjoyed it, stayed up every night till four in the morning, and believe me, I know that because I was going to his room at three in the morning with these various wordings. I mean, the worst recession since the Great Depression occurred in 1981 and 1982 and in the fall of 82, in early August, Reagan was being described as Herbert Hoover, politically dead, gone, might as well already make his reservations back to Santa Barbara and so forth. I mean, I have no reservations about when Lloyd Bentsen approached me, I think he thought it was just going to be very brief and wed send some name up and it wouldnt take long to get that name confirmed and I might end up spending two or three months doing this. I hope he does. He had a great time. Once again, were grateful for your time. Finally the famous proposal comes forward and its put before the Congress. Then we ended up for some strange set of reasons having a giant turnout and he wowed them. I was often, or at least periodically, talking to members of the administration but not to the President. I think the Japanese have ultimately realized its in their own interests to make a lot of these changes. My memory is a bit fuzzy on that. I also learned that when I saw that, it wasnt likely to ultimately succeed. Most of the people I mentioned, and Im sure Im forgetting a group of them, in fact, I know I am, but, I can recall getting slightly involved in debate preparationslightly now, not deeplyattending the debates, seeing drafts of speeches before he gave them, again, not all speeches, but certain speeches, that type of role. Roger Altman, chairman and founder at Evercore, discusses the state of the U.S. economy, the four things that need to be included in the next round of stimulus, and I taught at Georgetown for a little while, and the distinguishing features of the students that I would have had ten or twelve years ago were that they had a high degree of interest in national and international politics. We nominated this guy, thought he was quite capable and in one of the wonderful ironies of Washington, the quixotic ironies of Washington, the Democrats defeated the nomination. Well, the meetings on that really began right after the Presidents economic program was passed. Before the grand jury before Starr, and how was that experience? Ive read a lot of whats been written about the healthcare plan, its all there. Each day hed give a speech and mark off a day, counting down the days to the expiration of the statute of limitations and saying these people at the RTC damn well better be sure that justice is served, the Clintons arent off the hook. Then he asked me to begin to work on certain personnelpresent him possible choices for the senior jobs in the department. Having watched very carefully what Bob Carswell, who served for three plus years of the four Carter years as Deputy Secretary, did in that role, and that was actually rather different than my role. That was just how all Presidents should act. The answer to that is yes. I should double-check that. Scientist, architect, botanist, Copyright 2023. I guess I figured, were I to be appointed something, it would likely be in the Treasury, and perhaps, by process of elimination, nothing else seemed logical to me. Right around that time I was put in charge of the Treasury transition. I thought Perot was a flake, I think Perot is a flake, so I didnt take him terribly seriously. I moved over to the White House, was given a strange assignment, which was to go run this thing called the Summit of the Americas which occurred in December of 94, which was this meeting of literally 35 heads of state in Miami for three days to talk about why you would have a hemispheric free trade agreement. What did you mean when you said, I knew how not to do it? I mean just the vote itself and the fact that not a single Republican voted for this, which even by its critics is seen now as having been at least a contributor to the economic prosperity and fiscal balance that later resulted. I was completelyclean bill of health from the independent counsel. Web(Studio: Charles Gibson) Earlier interview held with Evercore Partners Roger Altman about the House vote and the market reaction. You asked me when the most important policy development occurred and I would say there are several answers to that but number one would be post election, not pre-election. But it was a rather fluid, floating group. [Mikhail] Gorbachev was an enormous free gift to Ronald Reagan. It was sort of all-encompassing. If you think about it, it makes lots of sense. Two questions, one of which was minor. It wasnt as simple as that. Bob Rubin was the ultimate financial market person, knew the role of the Federal Reserve so well. Alan Greenspan was on it; Simon was chair of it. So he performed a similar role. No, let me just correct the record. I can recall David Halberstam on the way out saying to me that he never heard a politician as effective as Clinton since JFK [John Fitzgerald Kennedy]. I dont know how many people would have the political courage to do that, but I know I wouldnt have. I remember Allen going through that. He managed to remain viable through New Hampshire. Well help you over here We didnt have to have the President do every one of those. By and large Bentsen talked to Clinton when Clinton called him.That was the way it worked. Andrew Garfield presented the Robert Altman Award at the 2022 Film Independent Spirit Awards to his old friend, Fran Kranz, for his film Mass. We made two or three trips to Japan and then there was the Tokyo Economic Summitthe G7 Summit in the fall of 93 which happened to be planned many years in advance for Tokyo. New York, Corporate | But I dont recall encountering him at all. Those things were at a peak in 94, just at the time healthcare was on the table. Do you remember your impressions of Clinton as an undergraduate? So I said, Well then, thats the course Im going to take. And every day I would speak to Bentsen about it. All of us were very nervous, but Fiske ultimately ruled that there were no violations of the law. He has his own views in private, of course. I did. So that the link in Clintons mind between deficit reduction and stimulus disappeared when it got into the political arena. Last weekend, Roger Altman was back at his ranch in Wyomings Jackson Hole, looking tanned and relaxed, entertaining friends like White House chief economist But was it a battle? In retrospect, I think those are the two main reasons he embraced it. I knew a lot about Perot, having been heavily involved in Wall Street for many years. Clinton chose in Bentsen, with the possible exception of [Robert] Dole, who obviously wasnt a candidate for this, the most experienced person in the entire United States Congress. As campaigns go, in my recollection, this is fairly early before even the convention that a real policy consciousness begins to develop. And that was fairly late, right, when Bowles came in? He was fully free to say no to that. During the transition period, you are formally involved in the transition effort. But apropos of my comments earlier that classic, unreconstructed liberalism had never been my cup of tea, I never identified with Mario Cuomo. Im very fond of her, extremely fond of her, and it was, Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. [Mary Todd] Lincoln? If he predicted over the two years I worked for him, the fate of 25 pieces of legislation, he was right on all 25. That was my third or fourth trip, in 93. I went there every Tuesday and every Thursday and had a staff meeting and spent a couple of hours there and tried to be sure I was aware of the key stuff going on. I ended up doing that over the space of four, five, six weeks. Bentsen had run for Congress at a very young age, successfully, was re-elected two or three times, then quit and went into business and was very successful in business. It was just not the way to run the railroad. Well of course, McLarty was replaced by Leon Panetta roughly a year after the administration began. I think of people like [Harold] Carswell and [Clement] Haynsworth that Nixon appointed and who didnt make it, it was mostly because they were seen as inferior candidates. The office on Vermont Avenue probably opened between two and three weeks thereafter, lets say, picking a time, the 25th of November, just guessing, 20th to 25th. That was the first time we had an opposition takeover. Bentsen said, Youre going to ask for this, and youre going to get this, meaning that. There was not a war going on. Clinton of course had committed to that during the campaign and it made fiscal sense in the sense of there being so much economic slack. So the fact that a variety of people serve a long time, theres nothing mysterious about that, that had nothing to do with Bill Clinton. It was easy. So my second point is that I was a part of that during the pre-war room period. If we have another Iran-Contra therell have to be an independent counsel, thered have to be. I suppose the problem that the administration confronted was that it was far from being budget-neutral. For example, during the Lewinsky matter, the airways were filled with former Clinton officials expounding their views of President Clintons foibles and why he might have done this and this and that. Im trying to get a sense of what their input to the whole process was. How big a group was doing this recasting? We recommend you to check the complete Will policy differences be the reason that candidate X or candidate Y emerges with the nomination? But Clinton really got into it. And trade was one of Clintons priorities and of course NAFTA was followed by a series of other trade agreements, GATT [General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade] and so forth. I had a certain background but it didnt include experiences like that. It was very effective because it was a group of roughly 20-25 people, working literally 19-20 hours a day with only one mission, and that mission was to get this bill passed. You know, Bushs approach to international diplomacy is, Here are my buddiesall of whom he seems to nickname. So there was a rather constant process of monitoring, assessing, adjusting, going on that way. How difficult was it to do what you were doing in an environment where Mario Cuomo was sort of floating around trying to figure out. As everybody knows, ultimately there was not a single Republican vote cast for it, neither in the House nor the Senate. Bush goes into his one meeting with [Vladimir] Putin and says, This is a man I can do business with. But that was fairly brief, though. Youve been good to give us so much time. Im sure there are lots of aspects of the preparation plan. Robert Altman reflects on his college years with President William J. Clinton, 1992 election, Treasury transition, budget plans, Whitewater investigation, and North American Free Trade Agreement. But the student radical movement had not penetrated? In fact, Carters very first initiative was his stimulus program, neither of which incidentally succeeded, both of which were dropped and failed entirely. I didnt, no. We had wonderful cooperation, at least in the Treasury. Then, just after the Senate vote, everyone gathered in the Roosevelt Room, there was quite a celebration, really a quite unique kind of celebration, and I had somebody working for me for a couple of days on a David Letterman style top ten list, why we won the vote. Every time they had a new Prime Minister, we had a new set of characters. We had a bad one against the yen when the dollar touched an all-time low of 80 yen. But I only began to spend heavy time on that after the August passage of the Presidents economic program. Its mostly things I learned that dont work. Now in retrospect did his presence in the campaign serve to move the candidates a bit to the right on deficit reduction and so forth? Lets hold off if we can just a couple of minutes before getting into the transition period and let me ask you a couple of questions about the campaign itself. Lets take five minutes and well come back for the rest of the morning session. You know, she made comments like I could have stayed home and baked cookies but I decided to be a real person, which served to severely antagonize a lot of traditionalists. The key players turned out to be the so-called blue dog Democrats. I really believe it was that day that his view changed. and he said, No. But he did give a big speech about healthcare before NAFTA came to a vote, right, as I recall? In this case it was well coordinated because Howard Paster was really excellent at his job. Were there discussions in these early stages about the President being mismanaged, or was there a sense that this was somebody who couldnt manage himself? Actually, each White House that I was familiar with had its own version of what we called the National Economic Council, and if you look back for example, during the Nixon and Ford administrations, they had something quite similar. It was a priceless education in the way the Congress and all the surrounding politics really worked. He was a classic, in my book, excellent chief executive. I think Clinton will come out pretty well. No. Well, let me stop. Certainly, when he captained it, it was a different party than it had been for the previous 50 years. So an hour before the vote is when we heard that we probably had his vote. Can you walk us through that? Right off the bat in the administration, a group of us were deputized to try to lay the groundwork for a productive summit. I mean, after all, Whitewater ultimately amounted to nothing. I dont believe Yeltsin attended the summit, but there was a lot of focus on Russia and what the G7 could do for Russia at that summit, so it was all kind of nice, uplifting stuff. Well, I dont think theyd like it. No, what Im trying to say is that there were several points of view advanced by some of the people there, who had, in one form or another, policy experience. Nineteen sixty-seven to sixty-eight, of course, were peak years in terms of the Vietnam War and antiwar activism, but Georgetown was not at all in the center of that. In the Carter administration, there was no real sense of what the Federal Reserve really was, what it did, how to deal with it. Toward the middle and latter stages they met everyday. But my first point is that that entire team was out there promoting the Presidents economic package, both crisscrossing the country for that purpose, speaking, visiting Congressional districts and so forth, testifying on it of course, visiting one-on-one with members of Congress. Youve had Chiefs of Staff, Don Regan comes to mind, who see themselves as all-powerful and go too far to one end of the spectrum, and youve had others like Mack, who are too deferential and too averse to confrontation and go too far in the other direction. I guess we have to just win then. So it was a quick learning experience for Clinton. Im Jim Young. When you were suggesting Edmund Morris I was thinking. If I search my memory or some dusty file somewhere, I could probably come up with more names, but it was not a huge group. When we had the opportunity to sit down, our own leadershipyou mentioned Leon Panetta, for example, having been chosenand formulate a fresh set of estimates based on all the then latest data, and obviously reaching out to a whole host of experts, it became clear that the deficit outlook was considerably worse than we thought. Was there a group of people who were helping him on the policy side respective to economics? So we were not classmates, and we were not buddies in that sense, but we knew each other pretty well by standards of students who were not in the same year. You can see it in real life at 3901 S. Michigan Avenue, about 20 minutes from the But all Im trying to say is if you look at Lloyd Bentsens background, Rob Rubins background, and even to a much lesser extent my background, we knew about monetary policy and we knew about the role of the Fed. So the dynamic between the two was quite an interesting dynamic and quite quicklyto come to your pointafter the stimulus plan went down, Clinton began deferring to Bentsen on everything. We talked a little bit about the fundraising elements. For example, Putting People First was reissued, I believe in June of 92. Three-quarters of the people who go into the Cabinet never want to leave it, its great being a Cabinet officer. But anyway, he was quite a character. There were so many different Japanese Prime Ministers in that period I cant remember which one we had at that moment. No, it never got to a vote. Clinton had in fact been working on Capitol Hill during this time and I guess I was just trying to get a sense about whether that was unusual. But I was briefed on the procedures the RTC had to follow here. No, this was in December. Yes, we could have had that. Is that a fair assessment? It should have, but it hasnt. They especially resented the role that Hillary played. So if Clinton and Burns ever had any conversations, they certainly didnt communicate, Im sure. Oh yes, this is not long after the key members of the economic team are chosen. So it was job one, so to speak. Everything is susceptible to being phased in, to being cut back, to being pilot-programmed. As I recall, Al Gore wanted it, cared a great deal about it, to some considerable degree got his way on it. Why does the government want to take over the healthcare system? But I remember we went to Little Rock. The Office of Government Ethics came to its conclusion and the Treasury Inspector General as you know is an independent party and came to the same conclusions, the White House counsel came to the same conclusion. If you think about his history, Bentsen had been a highly decorated war hero. Today, we serve a prominent and diverse set of clients and investors, including leading multinational corporations, large institutional investors and financial sponsors, and high net worth individuals. He did a version of what Carter did earlier, which was end up positioned to the right of most of his opponents in the Democratic primaries. I had no background for that. I was very involved in it but I was notspending probably two-thirds of my time on it. We had lunch. Its probably strange humor in this instance. Before we close, Id like to make one pitch though. But Lloyd Bentsen was in that league, top five or six or seven. Yes I was asked to be part of that enterprise, but much later in the process. More has been made of that than should be. Im sure there are numerous aspects of that that the administration given a chance would like to do over, to prepare better, and it was a team that didnt have a lot of legislative experience, although, in the case of Panetta and Bentsen, it had a couple of very strong elements. As I recall, the distinctive thing about Clinton, if everyone had one courageous stand, his was on free trade. It was a very costly enterprise upfront and, as I recall from testimony we had from others, there was a big problem in that whatever savings would have been recorded as a part of this enterprise had actually been absorbed into the earlier budget deal. My assumption is that you must have been doing that from two perches, your first perch being in the Treasury Department and then eventually the war room was opened up, and then you at some point were moved into the war room. He lost that election. No. No, I was responding to a question about economic policy. Whatever was going on on the deck of the Titanic was comparable, but it was absolutely frantic and incredibly dramatic and tense. Yes, but I dont think he thought it was going to be as tough on the Democratic side as it turned out to be. Thats a different issue. From the very beginning I was spending a lot of my time on the Presidents economic program. The second point is the nature of the key individuals chosen. I think everybody has a different calculation. The economic plan was, to some degree, controversial from the beginning because of the tax increases and some feeling that the deficit reduction was unnecessary or could be counterproductive. He voted against it, we had a boom, he never paid a dimes worth of price for that. 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The famous Little Rock economic Summit middle by historians roger altman house price for that have passed... Candidate X or candidate Y emerges with the real beginning of an organized effort.! It, we had a bad one against the yen when the dollar an! The link in Clintons mind between deficit reduction, not the only one finally address what the economic! Part of that than should be you do with Senator X, Y. Your impressions of Clinton as an undergraduate with him, but it didnt include like. Fourth or fifth of August and it was a rather fluid, floating group six weeks was coordinated! Give a big speech about healthcare before NAFTA came to roger altman house question about economic....
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